An interview with an attempted murderer

 

Back in the 1980’s and 90’s, under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE), social workers were often called upon by the police to fulfil the role of appropriate adult when interviewing children or vulnerable adults.

Requests to attend interviews with adults with mental disorders or learning difficulties were usually for the most serious offences.

So, one day I had a call from the local police station. That morning, a woman in her 60’s had literally crawled into the police station, covered in blood. She had twenty or more stab wounds. She was able to tell the police that her husband, George, had attempted to kill her by stabbing her repeatedly with a pair of scissors.

She was taken to hospital by ambulance. In the meantime, the police had attended her home, which was just round the corner from the police station. George answered to door and did not seem surprised to see them.

“Hello,” he had said. “I’ve just tried to kill my wife. I expect that’s why you’re here.”

I did some background checks. I discovered that George, who was 64, had been a patient of the mental health service for over 40 years.

I got hold of his community psychiatric nurse, who told me that George had a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. He had last had a psychiatric admission over 40 years previously. While in hospital, he had met his future wife, who at the time was a psychiatric nurse.

Since then, he had been maintained in the community through regular outpatient appointments and a fortnightly depot injection.

However, three months previously the community nurse had visited him for his depot, but George had politely refused. The nurse visited once more, and George had again politely but firmly refused.

His psychiatrist made an outpatient appointment, but George didn’t attend.

This is where things got a bit unusual. Because he had missed the appointment, the psychiatrist, rather than exploring other avenues, had discharged George from psychiatric services.

Prior to the formal police interview, I saw George in a side room. He smiled at me as I entered.

“George”, I began, “can you tell me what happened today?”

“I was arrested,” he said.

“Yes.”

“I was arrested for attempting to kill my wife.”

“Yes.”

“I stabbed her with a pair of scissors.”

“Why did you do that?”

“We’ve been married a long time, and I just thought it seemed like a good thing to do. They were the nearest thing to hand.”

“Did you have an argument?”

“No, I just thought it was about time.”

“Why did you stop having your depot injection?”

“I’ve been having one for decades. I haven’t complained. I just decided I didn’t want it anymore.”

“Did your wife know?”

“I told her the nurse had said I didn’t need it any more after all these years.”

I was unable to elicit any obvious paranoid delusions, and he was not obviously presenting with evidence of thought disorder.

He had not had any medication for several months, so maybe his mental illness was reasserting itself.

Whatever was going on with him, I knew he would not be being released any time soon.

After interview and charging, he would appear in court and would be detained in hospital under s.35 MHA for assessment.

And his psychiatrist would have some questions to answer.

An Interview with a Murderer

 

Back in the 1980’s and 90’s, under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE), social workers were often called upon by the police to attend interviews of children and vulnerable adults if a parent or other suitable person was not available. When I worked out-of-hours it was common to spend many hours at night sitting with a child or young person while they were interviewed for a suspected offence.

From time to time, we were asked to attend interviews with adults with mental disorders or learning difficulties. These were usually for the most serious offences.

Sean had been arrested for murder. He had a history of drug misuse and petty crime and was working in a local poultry processing plant gutting chickens.

The basic facts are these. After work, he had gone to the house of a woman he had had a brief relationship with some time previously, even though she had taken out an injunction. Her current boyfriend was there, and Sean was unhappy about this. The boyfriend told him to leave, but Sean insisted that he wanted to speak to the woman and began to approach her.

The boyfriend persisted, standing in front of the woman. Sean told him to get out of the way. The man refused. Sean took out his chicken gutting knife and again said he wanted to speak to the woman.

The man did not move, so Sean told him that he would stab him if he continued to interfere.

The man stood his ground, and Sean stabbed him.

Sean had earlier been interviewed in the presence of a solicitor, who happened to have a special interest in mental disorder.

She spoke to me privately when I arrived and was keen on my opinion as a mental health social worker as to whether Sean’s actions were the result of mental illness. She understood that Sean had involvement with the local forensic psychiatric service and had seen a psychiatrist within the last month.

Sean told us he wanted to make a statement on record, so I sat in the interview room with a police officer and his solicitor. What followed was quite chilling.

Sean began by telling us that there had all been a terrible mistake.

You see, he only wanted to talk to his ex girlfriend, because he was sure that if she knew how he felt about her, they could get back together again, but the other man kept telling him to get out and threatened to call the police.

Sean had told him to get out of the way and had told him that he would stab him if he didn’t, but as he wouldn’t do what he asked, he really had no choice but to carry out his threat.

You see, it was not his fault that the man had been stabbed. After all, he had warned him, so it was his own fault, you see.

It was clear that Sean genuinely believed that once he had explained it all to the police, they would say, “Ah, right, we understand now. Well, on your way, Sean, sorry we had to arrest you.”

This was one of the few occasions when I came face to face with a psychopath, someone who was unwilling to take any responsibility for his actions, however extreme, and was convinced that everyone else was to blame. Sean really did not, and could not, understand why the police should not simply let him go.

Sean was not released, but was remanded in custody, was tried and found guilty of murder, and was detained under s.37/41 Mental Health Act to a special hospital.