Ask
The Masked AMHP for the answers to your thorny MHA related problems. He might know
the answer. Or not.
Here’s
a question I recently received from a rather stressed and anxious AMHP (but
then they all are, aren’t they?)
I’ve
got 2 medical recommendations for Sec.3 on a patient who is in the medical
assessment unit of our local hospital, but lives outside our area. The other
area is currently trying to find a bed. Can I complete this application?
The
Masked AMHP replies:
No,
I’m afraid you can’t. You have to have the name and address of a hospital
prepared to take the patient on your application form before you can sign it
and therefore complete the application. But it’s even worse – your two doctors
can’t make a recommendation for Sec.3 unless they can state the name of a
hospital where appropriate treatment can be provided. And if they start giving
a very long list of possible hospitals, in the hope that one of them might
become available for the patient, that sort of defeats the object of suitable
treatment being available.
The
only thing I can suggest is that your two doctors make a recommendation for
Sec.2. then they won’t have to name a hospital, and they can then leave. Since
your patient is actually currently an inpatient on a general ward, you could
see if you can detain the patient on that ward under Sec.2. You can then
complete your application and the patient will be formally detained. The
patient can then be transferred under the usual transfer arrangements once the
other area has found a bed.
Here’s
a question I had emailed to me by a student AMHP.
I am a
student AMHP and a recent dilemma in the office has prompted me to write to
you. If a person is on a CTO and the conditions of this are that they receive
treatment in supported living should the living cost ie rent be paid through
S117, local policy says not but I wanted to check.
Also, the local policy says that the person does not legally have to accept the S117 aftercare, however how does this fit in with aftercare that is a requirement of the CTO?
Also, the local policy says that the person does not legally have to accept the S117 aftercare, however how does this fit in with aftercare that is a requirement of the CTO?
The
Masked AMHP replies:
There is
quite a bit of case law about S117 and housing costs, which I have covered on
my blog. Normal living expenses, eg food, electricity, housing, are universal
needs and are not arising from a mental health need. Therefore they are not
covered by S117.
If the
S117 aftercare is explicitly covered by the conditions of the CTO, eg that the
patient resides in a certain place, then a failure to do so breaches his CTO.
In such a situation, the patient would have to accept S117 aftercare.
Here’s a
question from the blog:
Have you ever known a situation where one doctor disagrees and
will not furnish a recommendation so a third doctor is sought in order to
detain?
The
Masked AMHP replies:
I have
certainly had situations where one doctor has furnished a recommendation, but a
second Sec.12 doctor has disagreed and refused. This is not uncommon for
someone who is an inpatient, and the hospital Responsible Clinician has left a
medical recommendation on the ward. I have to say that in these situations, I
have been satisfied to go along with this and not therefore proceed with an
application. However, theoretically, if as an AMHP you feel the dissenting
doctor is acting perversely, and you are very concerned about risks to the
patient if they are not detained, I do not regard it an unethical of obtain a
further medical opinion. However, there’d have to be a limit to the number of
doctors you could consult.
And
here’s a final question from another stressed and anxious AMHP:
I’ve
got a 16 year old girl on a Sec.2 in a private hospital. We do not feel she
needs to be in hospital, and we have arranged for an alternative placement. The
Community Responsible Clinician backs this plan. However, the hospital
Responsible Clinician refuses to discharge her from hospital, and will not
discharge the Sec.2. What can we do?
The
Masked AMHP replies:
Crumbs!
What a peculiar situation. The hospital RC has the final say in this,
regardless of what the community RC thinks, and even if the community RC
provided one of the recommendations. The patient can appeal against the
decision, and as it’s a Sec.2 the Tribunal would generally be within 3 working
days. In the meantime, you as the AMHP could make it clear that you would be
recommending discharge, which might concentrate the mind of the hospital RC.
Keep your
questions coming in! The Masked AMHP is always happy to try to assist.